The body as sponge : interview with Eugenia Vargas

              TERRITORIES
For Eugpiiia Vargas (honi iii (^hile,
l ' ) 4 ' ' ) . llic l)()(lv ¡s ii roiiHiKín riialn-iiii. a
receiveí' w liicli mai'ks llic passiiig ol
liiiic. a ]iieiii()i\' haiik. I leí- work is
siluaU'd OH llie Ijonk'i'liiie Ijclwecn
|ili(]l()i;rii|)li¡r irislalkilioiis aiid llic
phoKigrapliy di' ¡iislalkilidiis. Slic exploils
tlii' lesliiiKiiiial and (l(iriiriiciilai'\
|)Ossil)ilit¡e.s üi' pliolograpln . Bul
coiiliarx lo llic ICIIIICIKN ol iradilional
plK)logra|)li\ lo IVcczc llii' ¡niagc ¡ii ils
spacr-liinc diiiUMisioii. lúigciiia
coiislrucls a kiiid ol (liralro sel-dosign.
docuinciiliiig il in oidcr lo loiicli oii siicli
ancicnl lliciiies as tlie passiiig ol lime
and lili' illlprilll^ oí iiicinorx.
Accoi'diiig lo tile arlist. tlie aet ol'
crealioii. ¡iisl likc liiiinaii cxislciu-e. is
made up ol' a sel ol' riuials. aii iniciiial
order. a logic wliicli is invaiiahK
expressed l)V rccording ihe passing oí
evenls. For lliis i-cason. (¡iiic and spacc
as basic coiiipoiiciils oí idciililx aii' nol
oiilv kev ihciiies in licr \\(irk huí also
vilal insIriiiiii'Hls lor llir coiislriiclioii ol
lile pholograpliic ¡iiiagc. Tlial is \\li\ il
¡s nol a niallcr of cliancc ihal slie uses
licr l)od\ as holli prelcxl and
prolagonisl. "kOr nic. llic ai'tisl stales.
"the lio(l\ i^ like a sponge. I use personal
objecls: shoes. «alelíes, hooks. ele. In
lilis \va\' I Irv l<i enai)le e\('r\(ine wlio
sees iii\ wdi'k lo idenliíx willi diese
sxinliolir reíeicnees I use. Il s a \\a\ of
selling sonielliiiig up and (locuiui-nling
il. I lie \\a\ iii wliielí k.iigenia \ ai'gas
pereeixcs |)liologra|)li\' lias a lol lo do
willi liei' personaliu. Slie doesu I like
iinage-liiiiiling. •...becaiise dial rolis me
of energ\. I like heiiig in eoulrol oí
eveiN lliiiig. selling up iii\ ow n iinages,
usiug ni\ ow II olijeels and erealing iiiv
owii s\nil)ols. I prcler working in llie
sliidio and seleeling llii' malcriáis I use
oiie l)\ oiie: eaelí lias a poiiil. il s iioí
jiisl aeeidenlal.
E.N'.F: Wlial kiiid oí meaning can
lie diawii íroni llii' relalioiislup Ijelwcen
\c)iir ow II iiaked liody. imdisguised. and
all llie s\nil)olie olijeeis NOU iiielude'r'
F . \ : I draw several eoimeelions
lielwi'en m\ liod\ and diese ohjecls:
evidenih. (jiie Is llie erealion oí a
relalionsliip of kelonging. Tile final aiui
is dial llie \ie\vers eslahlisli a liiik of
idenliliealion willi lile image I pro\ ide
aiiil lile (ll)¡eel^ I ineorporale. lilis is llie
hasis of ihe kiiid of ael¡\c pllologiapll\
wliielí I iiiake: I don I waiil llie piiMii' lo
^impl\ eoiilemplale ni\ wiiik. I was
ediiealed iii lile 70'^ in lile I iiiled
Slales. and I am parí of dial geiieralion
w liiili lias liei'ii inlliieiieed l)\ llie
Iciiiinisl nio\cnieiil. Il wa> as if lilis
nioM'iiienl ga\c me llie pos^il)iliI\ lo do
as I wi^lled willi ni\ lioiK. e\cn lo
assaull il. Il M'eined M) iiew and dariiig
for wiiineii lo lake olf llieir elollii's ;md
pliolograpli eaelí oilier. I fell dial lilis
was good lor me and il was wlial I liad
iieeded all ni\ lil'e. I was allraeled l>\
wlial llie\ cali Miieeloiial pllologiapliv'
in llie Slales. dial is. plioiogiapin wliielí
niainlains llie aliiliu lo direel \i)ii. ¡usl
as a lliealer direelor (loes. Tlien I slarled
lo niake small inslallalions and seis lo
pul my lioiK inlo a eonle.\l.
F.V.F: Soiiip .Viiierieaii
pliolographers of xoiir geneíalioii work
willi simulaira and willi disguises,
rallier lliaii willi iiudilx. wlieii llie\
incorpórale llie l)od\ in a leading role.
I3\ undressiiíg. llie\ eoneeal lile arlislie
idea williiii a ganie of polilieal messages.
Is disauise also oiie of \(inr ainis'í'
,A A
CENTRO A H A T A I C O DE ARTE MODERNO
E.V: I am transparent, Tm not
interested in disguising anything. In the
objects I include, you can see regret,
nostalgia, aside from the ideology they
bear. Within my methodology, is the
recyding of my own images, and this
strengthens one of my cardinal aims:
working with memory.
E.V.F: Do you mean that there is
an archaeological aim within your
Creative method?
E.V:Yes. I could have used video,
or computers, or digital photography,
but nene of that interests me. I reject
high technology, because for me the
most important thing is to make
photography like a craft, a primary
thing. Within this almost archaeological
interest that I have for re-evaluating the
traditional technical processes of
photography, I also make use of the
conceptual possibilities of the
photographic process itself. In this
sense, I want to be more or less
coherent with situations like the
environment. In photography, you use
chemicals which can be highly toxic,
things that are really corrosive. That's
why, in some of my work, I establish
analogies between the deterioration of
the environment and photographic
processes. Photographers who are
always after the latest equipment really
get to me; that kind of thing doesn't
attract me at all. I fight against that
sort of technological refinery. I'm
interested in representing part of my
personal world and other things which
don't affect me directly, but might
reach other people; personal histories I
get hold of....
E.V.F: You are a Chilean artist
who lives in México. How does your
work relate to current artistic production
in Chile, and how is it integrated into
contemporary Mexican art?
E.V:I abandoned Chile at the
begiiming of the 70's. I no longer have
any connection with Chile. When I left I
wasn't an artist, but a music student. A
lot of my work has to do with identity. I
am Chilean regardless of where I may
go. I'm very critical of the political
System in Chile and the conservative
mentality of people there shocks me; to
me it seems such a small-town
mentahty. I love Chile, but I don't feel
comfortable there; it's suffocating. In
México, there's a lot more social
tolerance than in Chile. And when I talk
about nostalgia, it's not for having left
my native land. It's a nostalgia for the
things I can touch and understand. It
was in the United States, after leaving
Chile, that I started to get interested in
photography. By puré chance, I carne
across a Canadian theater company and
a camera landed in my lap. They needed
to make a presentational catalogue for
the company and I offered to do it, even
though I'd never taken a photo in my
life. It was a theatrical experience.
Perhaps that's why there's a whole
theatrical liturgy later in my work. I'm
very influenced by Mexican culture; a lot
of things that appear in my work come
from popular culture in México. In that
sense I guess I am cióse to Mexican
artists, but visually, intellectually, I
don't think I have much in common
with them.... Maybe with some Mexicans
who have worked outside México, such
as Silvia Gruner, with whom I do in fact
identify.
E.V.F: Even so, México has a long
photographic tradition....
E.V: Yes, but that tradition
doesn't influence me, although I valué it
a great deal. One of the photographers
who did influence me when I studied
photography in the States was Alvarez
Bravo; for me, he is the best. But I've
never been like documentary
photographers, not even like American
ones.
E.V.F: How does the Mexican
public relate to your work?
E.V:Ten years ago, I suffered quite
a lot. I don't know if you've heard of an
institution called the Consejo Mexicano
de Fotografía (CMF). I arrived just when
that institution was in decline, and my
work was quite shocking to its members,
particularly the men. Mexican women,
however, did like it. Many young women
involved in photography also started
showing themselves nude. And now even
the men are taking their clothes off! At
first, a lot of people branded me a
feminist, and they even said I was a
lesbi£ui, but all that didn't bother me too
much. In many Latin American
countries feminism and lesbianism go
hand in hand. On top of this, the CMF
decided that I wasn't a photographer
because I do performances and
installations, and they don't consider
that to be tlie work of a pliotographer:
tliey lliiiik llial kiiid ol work is íor
sciilplors or actors. Bul tlie artists did
consider me onc of llieir owii. 1 i-eallv
í'oiind niy í'eet aiiioiig artists because
pliotographers rejected me oiitright.
Tlial s whv 1 llave haidlv aiiv coiitact
willi other jjliolograpliers iii México and
we reallv have verv little to sav lo each
other. I am a traiisgressive woiiian.
That s p a n oí'lile í'reedom of arl. People
llave ofleii said that iiiv images and
performances are seiisational. Soineliines
il gets to me that people don 1 accepl
that a pliotographer who does
performances can be a bit theatrical. For
me, it is alwavs valid to break barriers.
E.V.F: Eugenia, looking at vour
pilotos, oiie gets the inipression lliat oiie
pholo doesn't tell the whole story. and
vou have lo look al a whole series wliere
there is a sequeiice and the ideas are
continued. Is that vour inlention, or does
il jusl happen like that?
E.V: 1 like workiiig with
moveinenl. with reading, and I d o nt
really like usiiig onlv oiie pholo becatise
il s like giving vou only oiie word. Ini
interested in iiarrating images, so that
m\ |)liot()s can be read backwards or
forwards. Perlia])s il would still work if I
took a few of lliem away; 1 like the idea
of polvseinic readings and the fací that
anyone can idenlify lliemselve.s with iny
discoiirse. But ihen. I also want the
freedom lo do as I please, even if people
gel iipset; liiev have every riglit lo do so.
We have lo fiíid more flexible alliliides
witlioiit segregation. A lot of niachisino
comes froin women. We should l'ind a
wav lo commimicale so ihal we don t all
wear oiirselves out in thal sterile
stniggle. I don't ihink thal iiow. at the
end of the millenniíim. feminisni is out
of date or dead: it should slill be
considered and accepted. Wonien's
stniggles have not ended in the
developed world or in ihe Third World:
iheir problems remaní the sanie. Those
batties have not vet been -n'on. I dont
lliink thal feminism has been left
behiiid. 1 ihink it was one of the mosl
important polilical movements that look
place afler the 60's: perhaps post-inodernism
and inulti-ciilluralism
woiikhi t have exisled if il weren't for
the women s movement.
E.V.F: Nevertheless, the femiiiisl
inoveinent (which was accom])anicd bv
the black movement. and llieii followed
bv ihe gav inovemenl. and llie liglit for
civil rights) marked out social liniits as
fragmentarv and slagnanl spaces.
creating a complex and helerogeneous
social diagram. polarizing llie different
sides even more. 1 thiiik the femiiiist
movement. to a certain exlent. aclnally
conlributed lo ihe radical building of
barriers and differences.
E.V: I d o n t see it thal way. The
feniinist moveinenl didni lackle llie
differences between men and women.
but ralher llie disadvantages in access lo
Jobs, positions of responsibilitv. social
roles, etc. (because there are, of coiirse,
biological differences.)
E.V.F: Do yon tliink a lot of
people see vour work as Teininisi'
siniply because the photogra|)hic subjecl
is vou. a wonian. and l)ecaiise of the
uniqíie wa\ yon work with the image?
Eugenia Vargas.
Poder de Actos de
Dominio Inerocable,
199.5.
II(W (loes tlial conspire againsl tlie
eonmiuiiieative aiins ol vour arlistic
prodiiction?
R.V: I doii't reall\ iniíid if ihat's
liow lliev read inv woik. liut I don't
diiuk tlial s all iin woi'k coinés down to
either. For abont í'ive vears now, people
liaven't heen inteipretinf; niv work like
lliai in México. I in aiVaid lliat going
against llie cnnent ¡s now in fashion;
meii pliolograpliinjí wonien and vice
versa. After inv |)aiiiei])alion in ihe Fittii
Havana Biennial. 1 was iuvited lo exhibit
in a show called "Gnerpos Alterados in
tlie Wilírcdo Laní Cenler in thiba.
Later. in ihe Bronx Mnseuní in New
York, I exhibiled a large installation
which was linked thematically to the
work I exhibiled in Havana. 1 Iried lo
créate a dialogue belween eighly water
bottles with shoes inside llieni and great
ecto-color impressions which emphasize
niv reflections on identity. nostalgia,
rnemorv and the need for underslanding
belween people. I tried to créate a cyclic
atmosphere iising tautological resoiirces
to make a nietaphor aboul alternative
historv. Now, I n i going to photograph
nien and it will never be in the same
wav tliat thev photograph women, or
ihai wonien photograph each other. I
receñíIv curaled an exhibition in México
called 'Hombres mirando hombres,
which inchided performances,
documentarv pholograpln' and
conceptual photography. The critics
reallv attacked me. Thev even said that I
ciirated mv exhibitions iii the same way
that I carried oul mv photographic
work. That. of conrse, I interpreted as
praise! At the inauguration, I remember
tlial 80% of the piiblic was gay. In
México, from the 80 s onwards. wonien's
arl opened up the possibilitv for men to
leí theniselves phologiaph each other.
That s wliv 1 invited four pholographers
to lilis exhibition, which was very
controversial. Ai ihe niomeiil. 1 ain bii.sv
wilh a projecl in which 111 be working in
collaboration with another
photographer: FU use his photos in order
to see the maseuline bodv fiom his
viewpoint. The man we're going to use
as a model has nothing lo do w ilh the
canon of maseuline beaulv; he's an
im]3erfect, pretty average man. fragile
inside. Tliis is the same wav that 1 work
wilh a woinan. Allhongh 1 still liaven t
resolved all mv doiibts. 1 do feel 1 can
sav sometliiiig new aboiit the male body.
In spite of the biological difíerences
between us, we'rc really not all that
diffeient.